Why Rank is hurting the community and why we should boycott groups that ask for it...

[Guizzy]

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

so it stands that you should be able to make a perfectly competitive group with rank 0-2s.

I do.

[Shinomori]

OK, I agree with this thread. Seriously.

I'm still a rank 0. I've had the game since the beginning of June. Why? I didn't get to halls until August, since I went on vacation all of june. I come back, and I got in a few groups. Mainly just pickup groups, since I play a ranger. And I haven't gotten any fame, sincethey *happened* to suck.

But yet, I have 14,000 faction. I'm good at PvP, but I can't get into a tombs team. Because I can't make a pretty little animal come out in front of me. I think this is just wrong.

But while we're at it, I also would like to rant against groups that are annoying. Like when you have a FULL tombs waiting area and all you see is "LF IWAY warrior" or , before they actually balanced it, "LF Spirit spammer". Now, I know what you're saying - "you coulda joined the second one". Yeah, but I hate build groups. No one ever realizes that you could ACTUALLY have a good group if you pulled your head out of your a-- and realized that balance wins battles. Basically, I no longer even LOOK in tombs because it's either "LF Rank 3+" or "LF (insert build here)". Where's the people who actually want skilled players?

And if you think rank indicates how good you are, you must not play in other arenas very often. Because you should know better if you have ANY experience at all.

[Timoz]

Don't be a whiney little bitch, someone close this n00by thread.

If your not good enough to get it, you don't deserve to be in the better groups

Flame me all you want, your a complete and utter n00b i really don't care.

You don't even deserve the status 'newbie' acting like this.

HOW THE F**K DID I GET TO RANK 9. DID I WHINE AND BOYCOTT, NO! ! !

I made my iown groups and proved that rank doesn't matter vs.quality.

[Calnaion Blackhawk]

Originally Posted by Shinomori

But yet, I have 14,000 faction. I'm good at PvP, but I can't get into a tombs team. Because I can't make a pretty little animal come out in front of me. I think this is just wrong.

yes... but then how did i get from rank 0 - 6? i didnt whine like you saying that im good at PvP, you cant be that good at PvP as you would have been asked to join a good group then they would see "how good" you are....

quite simply

rank = experience, but the IWAY has thrown it off course a bit as it required no skill but u can fame for it...

please close this thread mods

[Knight of Eternal Darknes]

Originally Posted by Timoz

Don't be a whiney little bitch, someone close this n00by thread.

If your not good enough to get it, you don't deserve to be in the better groups

Flame me all you want, your a complete and utter n00b i really don't care.

i agree with you too

[Guizzy]

Don't be a whiney little bitch, someone close this n00by thread.

If your not good enough to get it, you don't deserve to be in the better groups

Flame me all you want, your a complete and utter n00b i really don't care.

We really do need more of this kind of constructive comments, really!

as you would have been asked to join a good group then they would see "how good" you are....

*Sigh*

This is not about people whining because they want rank "just because".

It's about people NOT BEING ASKED TO JOIN A GOOD GROUP BECAUSE OF RANK.

Tell me how I'm supposed to earn the rank needed to enter groups that actually win enough to gain that rank?

You agree it's actually broken because of FotM; which leaves newcomers to the Tombs face in the mud with an elephant sitting on their back.

All's fine and dandy for those who got their Rank before it started not being accurate anymore. Not so for new players. They are only getting into hastily put together Blind Invite groups that lose.

I'm not whining for me; I don't care for rank anymore. I make my own groups and have a lot of success doing so. I'm trying to help those who don't want to make their own groups; not everyone is good at that. As long as the community accepts that rank dominate relations in the Tombs, these new players will be denied one of the most fun part of the game.

I'm not trying to "make everyone equal" or negate the hard work of those that got a lot of fame. I want all of you to stop discriminating on rank. Rank does not equal experience; just as money doesn't mean hard work.

[ShadowWrath]

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Do not exist unless they're on their second account. PvE does NOT prepare you for PvP.

Although I agree with the second statement, I strongly disagree with the first. Just because you don't frequently HoH doesn't mean that you suck at PvP. It's very hard for me to get a Tomb group being Rank 0, but that doesn't mean that my Guild doesn't frequently GvG or do 4v4.

[Zaklex]

You want to know a little secret, all of the top PvP players, and by top I mean the ones in Fianna, SoW, Nuclear Launch Detected, Negative Zero, etc. don't play tombs. Do you know why, it's a broken mechanic, and those /rank Tomb PvP'ers just may not be good enough for GvG, which is the pinnacle of GW PvP.

[chance]

I've built up a substantial network of people to do Tombs with. That's how I even got into the guild I am in. However, you need to make friends with people that do things consistently. You also need to be able to play multiple jobs and multiple jobs well. If a friend of yours is forming up a team, and he asks if you can play Monk for him, and you say "Sorry, I only play Ranger". Then you need to do some homework and unlock more skills.

Rank isn't the issue. FoTM take little to no skill to play and/or understanding of game mechanics. That's why they hit it off with the majority. The minority of us that come up with original aspects to a build, tend to do well. Yes, I do agree that we shouldn't not accept someone into a group if he's not a certain rank. Let's take a look back at recent history of FoTM (it obviously is not an extensive list). We got KD/AS warriors, Air Spike, Ranger Spirit Spam, E/Mo Smiting, IWAY, Ranger Spike (to an extent, though obviously some run it WAY better than most), Ranger Trapping. How these came about was someone came up with a decent original build. The majority of the people that lost to it realized how SIMPLISTIC it is to run, so they start leading groups of that nature. FoTMs are born. The funny thing is, does anyone else notice how the cycle of the game is starting to come back around full circle?

However, most Tombs groups that consistently win ARE NOT PUG. They are friends that know that each other are good and can play multiple jobs or 1 job excellent. They then rally together and go at it. They don't PUG. If they have 1 spot open, they ALL OPEN UP THEIR FRIEND LIST and start asking.

And btw, this most recent update balanced the game considerably until someone comes up with a smart build that is easily copyable and not hard to play. Mesmer did not get so nerfed as many would think.

In addition to all that, my friend Wu Ziching is entirely correct. He hates getting PUGs, cause you never know wtf you're going to get. He could be rank6 and still not know how to run a build. Getting a good group together with PUGs is like winning the lottery, one day at a time.

~Saline Chance. Always available for questions in-game. (Don't look down upon low ranks either, since we all were there at one point. I just like people that are willing to listen and take advice).

[scamPOR]

Just to prove you right / wrong (I really don't care the outcome, so much as I would like to see the outcome) I'll make an attempt at putting together an unranked group. In my experience unranked monks are trash, however, I intend to keep an open mind.

[Fantus]

Originally Posted by Zaklex

You want to know a little secret, all of the top PvP players, and by top I mean the ones in Fianna, SoW, Nuclear Launch Detected, Negative Zero, etc. don't play tombs. Do you know why, it's a broken mechanic, and those /rank Tomb PvP'ers just may not be good enough for GvG, which is the pinnacle of GW PvP.

which is exactly the point why rank is rather meaningless. One of the most challenging sort of PvP in GW doesn't even get rank awards...

@Timoz: Nice trolling. But don't worry, we won't flame you - it's unfair to flame 5 year olds.

[Orochim4ru]

I do.

Then the /rank mechanic doesn't stop players from experiencing tombs and isn't detrimental to the community.

Case closed.

You want to know a little secret, all of the top PvP players, and by top I mean the ones in Fianna, SoW, Nuclear Launch Detected, Negative Zero, etc. don't play tombs. Do you know why, it's a broken mechanic, and those /rank Tomb PvP'ers just may not be good enough for GvG, which is the pinnacle of GW PvP.

The pinnacle of GW PvP is energy denial + 5 monk VoD builds?

Ah, i see... 120~/1 on Jet Li must have tired out EP from their massively defensive and almost assured victory setup.

minority of us that come up with original aspects to a build, tend to do well.

And to those of us that come up with original builds, our builds are copied/nerfed and become new FoTMs.

Although I agree with the second statement, I strongly disagree with the first. Just because you don't frequently HoH doesn't mean that you suck at PvP. It's very hard for me to get a Tomb group being Rank 0, but that doesn't mean that my Guild doesn't frequently GvG or do 4v4.

4v4 doesn't prepare you for tombs to the same extent that 4v4 doesn't prepare you for GvG, and by the same token GvG doesn't prepare you for tombs either.

If you want to play in good tombs groups, you need tombs experience.

[Rey Lentless]

I'm sorry, but you sound like you're trying to get enough fame... just to run iway.

If your NEXT step is iway, you're not someone I want in my group. I'd ask for your emote, you wouldn't have it.. and everything would be right with the world. It seems this is working as intended to me.

You have the option to join a pvp guild, have a friend's list, meet new people.. etc. Things that you have apparently passed on. If it is indeed broken, why is anyone rank.. anything? Other people start and do just fine, and you haven't. Why hasn't it occurred to you that you may be doing something wrong, instead of assuming something's wrong with the game. That type of attitude won't make you a better player. The real bad thing here is that you probably have a similiar attitude towards the rest of the game. If some rank 3, 6, or even 9 group took you.. would you do what they asked? Would you change your build? Or would you come here and complain about skill balancing because your build isn't as powerful as you'd like it.

Rank isn't a good indication of skill and most people don't argue that, but as someone said, it's a tool used to help guess what random player might be adequate. Playing with people you know is still far superior and most people do that, and certainly the ones that are successful in pvp.

If you really want things to change for you, YOU'LL have to do something differently, the game isn't going to change around you.

[Bahumhat]

you will never get a boycott agasint rank3+ etc. only groups. you will never stop it. People Will always do it. there will always be people rank 0-2. you can go ahead and help them. I'll even try it. but you will never stop. Rant/agree whatever but you will never be able to boycott /rank groups.

you're right Rank doesnt mean experience. but beeing rank 3+ etc. helps alot. it lets you know, people know; that you play tombs. you've won alot of matches you've had alot of Tomb experience. That you're not a compelte total *newbie*. I've been rank 0-2 before. It was hard to get a group, but not impossible.

[2_fingers]

All rank tells u is the number of wins u had while being in the group. It is not a good indicator of pvp strength simply because of the idea that u get rank even if u do not contribute much. Think about it this way. IWAY means that even if ur output to the team is mediocre, as long as there are a few people in the group that know what they are doing, they would be able to farm some fame.

I like playing nec/mes/ranger primaries. I used to do iway when there werent groups that were forming. (I stopped because the more i started playing iway, the more disgusted i got). What i do now is i sit around in the lobby, waiting for someone to organize a party - (with ts and vent). I then ask them what build they are running. If they can tell me a clear idea of what they are doing, i'll join them.

In another words, the criteria i used for pvp intelligence is not rank but rather

1. Voice communciation software
2. A plan

That said, rank is also useful because u get people who have no idea about pvp, thinking its pve. Common mistakes i see that happen in pvp?
1. Healing Breeze (WTF-especially if its inefficiently used)
2. Rebirth
3. No res signet (non-monks)
Primarily because rank is an indicator at least in theory of how much experience u have in pvp tombs.

It is a lousy indicator because rank only applies to tombs, does not apply to the random arena. Generalizes the idea that only ranked indviduals are good.

As for the pve/pvp argument that was running in the threads? Alot of the combos u see in pvp are related to those in pve. Pointless to say that pvp > pve because they are too similar and different at the same time.
Ever been hit by Crippling Anguish and Conjure phantasm?
Hell, have u ever been killed in a farming run by those Justicar Zealots when they get pissed that their buddy died and went I W A Y?
Or how about Cry of frustration?

[exploding flowers]

This thread is like an argument between serfs and nobles.

Serfs: "don't treat us like crap. we're capable beings just like you!"

Nobles: "why do you think you deserve to be treated better when you don't even have money! we'll start treating you better once you escape our servitude!"

Anyway. I agree completely with the OP.

[One and Two]

You gotta admit the emotes are pretty cool.

I can see both points of view. Top pvpers sometimes dont have rank, but I can see how people who want to go to HOH have trouble. However, some people dont want newbs joining their group of random people.

[Kassad]

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

He didn't specify that it was a monk. I'm nice enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ahem.. I was playing my ele.. and back then alter maps had 3 teams.. now I hardly see 3..

[Rey Lentless]

Originally Posted by exploding flowers

This thread is like an argument between serfs and nobles.

Serfs: "don't treat us like crap. we're capable beings just like you!"

Nobles: "why do you think you deserve to be treated better when you don't even have money! we'll start treating you better once you escape our servitude!"

Anyway. I agree completely with the OP.

Wrong. None of us were born with fame. Nobody's preventing him from joining a pvp guild. No reason he can't have a friend list. He can make his own groups. Rank 3 is 180 fame, that doesn't take long at all.

Is it easier to get fame if you have it? You bet. But we all started at 0 here.

[Kakumei]

oh man

this thread is lol

this is why i still play gw